User comments

  1. Lanita Degan says:

    I’m truly enjoying the design and layout of your blog. It’s a very easy on the eyes which makes it much more pleasant for me to come here and visit more often. Did you hire out a developer to create your theme? Can I link freely your articles?

    • Livio says:

      All our publications are “patent free” and “open source” so you can link and use our material as you like.

  2. Zora Klicka says:

    Really nice info you have here, gracias

  3. vsingh says:

    I just started with the theramino software for gamma spectroscopy. Very nice job. Much easier to use than PRA. I could not get Becqmoni to even work. I really appreciate the English version and also the documentation. Nobody likes to write documentation. I am using gamma spectacular 2020 with 2″ NaI. I think your algorithms to extract the maximum resolution work quite well and I look forward to future development. My next step is to build a lead chamber to eliminate background as much as possible. Expect a donation from me.

  4. Khanlala007 says:

    There is a rough guide to FastGcode?
    I am trying to use it but I always failed, It tells me that there is a Division for 0

    • Livio says:

      Probably a guide would not solve this error. Send me the Eagle project and the entire FastGcode folder (FastGcode including so control that is the latest version)

      You may be using grid and snap inadequate steps for which you don't have a good control of the segments on Eagle and I came some very strange, zero length, or are there any polygons that are fractious, or who knows how many other things can happen if you're not familiar with Eagle…

      The FastGcode should not go in error.

      But I don't know how to correct it if I can't see the details. Send me a ZIP at “Engineering at sign theremino dot com” or contact me on skype “livio_enrico” and, with screen sharing, We'll put in place together.


  5. Khanlala007 says:

    Hi thanks for the support. I solved it by setting the default value :D
    Take advantage of this channel for one more question…the various parameters for processes ? for example bit diameter and corner , for a Burin that I should set ? and for cutting flat cutters ?
    A last question… The gcode generated causes the cutter follows the track when the cutter diameter? For instance is always outside it or just “follows” the runway edge without considering the cutter diameter?
    Thanks again

    • Livio says:

      The GCode created takes account of the cutter diameter. The cutter should then be able to switch between tracks. The tracks should be broad, with loose insulation (from 0.7 or 0.8 mm).

      You can make only very small single-sided PCB, otherwise the process becomes so difficult and slow which is better the photo-engraving. Possibly designed PCBs made by us to see what sizes and what isolations we used.

  6. giamp says:

    sorry but why for the geopreamp v4 in the text you mention LT1014 while in the scheme and in the 3d image you read LT6014 ??

    • Livio says:

      There had to be a mistake… I checked now and I can't find any 1014, so it was corrected in some revision. Thanks for noticing, If you find other error write them, Hello.

  7. Kiko says:

    But the pic is programmed with the pickit2 or there goes 3 ??? Thank you for your attention

    • Livio says:

      Pic programming with the PicKit2, We do always. The PicKit3 goes a little’ better and is less picky about the kinds of integrated programming. With the PicKit2 some pic should be programmed in HiVoltage and earlier “Erased”. You have to learn a little, but you can. The advantage of delPicKit2 is that it costs a lot less.

      I have a question though, It's not that you're actually thinking so Arduinico? You know that our modules are already in place as they are and that requires no programming?

      The only reason to program the PIC is if you get the forms alone, If so many best wishes of success… and ask us for any doubt or problem.

  8. Luca says:

    I'm trying to realize your project ThereminoArm, but unfortunately I had a problem because when I purchased the master and slave adapters I was provided a cable “White, Red, Black” instead of “Brown, Red, Yellow” and I can't make the connection between the two boards. Or the slave adapter led turns on and then turns off after a few seconds, or makes only small shots. Thanks in advance and sorry for the technical language, but I'm pretty ignorant on the subject!

    • Livio says:

      I'm sorry you bought two cards for anything but you will need in the future. For now I suggest you simplify, use the only Master to do the robotArm is fine.

      When you want to go the slave Board just put black (or brown) on the right side. Black or brown wires are the same thing (GND) and on the right side of black (or brown) is always the edge of plate.

      But I think wrong something else, You probably don't have attached the yarn to the serial but one of the pins, now it's late but call me tomorrow and let me help you put it in place. Livio phone 0125 57290

      If you would like to see pictures that explain well how to connect the master and slave see on this page:


  9. Livio says:

    Peter wrote us asking:
    I'm a musician and composer… I found out just now the existence of the system Theremino. There are videos that explain the general functioning or where I can hear the sounds, before the order of the hardware system?

    Thank you, and congratulations for the realization of a free software :) habitually, in music, It's hard to find interesting free software, and often you have to pay considerable sums…

    Theremino the system is as simple we managed to study, even for non-techies.

    But being composed of several modules, both hardware and software, You must begin with a minimum of knowledge of the system, otherwise you may not understand anything. For which, In addition to watching videos about music and download programs to try out the sounds, It would be good to read these pages, or at least scroll quickly:

    What to buy?
    Much of the system Theremino is software,
    completely free and functional even without hardware.

    Hardware modules for sale could be:
    – 1 Master (both for the Theremin for Piezo sensors and the capacitive buttons)
    – 1 Cap Sensor (for the antenna of the Theremin's pitch)
    – 1 second Cap Sensor (If you want the volume in the Theremin)

    Or a Theremin, complete and finished, built by Lello.

    Pages on music:

    Video about music (Theremin Synths)

    Video about music (Piezo Drums)

    Video about music (MIDI Player in SyncMode)

    Video about music (MIDI and VST freeware)

    Try the Theremin's Synth sounds
    Download the Theremin and try now its sounds, even without hardware.

    Other components to play:

    Important software components for music:

    All videos on your system Theremino:

    A list of all possible applications:

    It will take some time to familiarize yourself with the whole system, why it is good to start small and experiment.

    If you need anything else we're always here…

  10. Fabrizio says:


    I'm trying to implement a project that provides, inter alia,, the use of two webcams that must operate simultaneously and defects on mechanical parts, a placed above and one below the piece that will be precisely placed on a support from one of the two robots, all managed by using automation . I tried to create two separate folders of software video inspector, (video inspector 1 and video inspector 2) and it seems to work, but I have encountered a problem with slots: To make a long story short, even though I tell him to use, for the first slot 400 and for the second slot 500, When I close my applications and I open, both go to write values on slot 1, by ignoring that I gave him and which are stored in its box. Pretty much to force them to use the slots 400 and 500 I have to start, Click on the appropriate boxes of two video applications inspector and press enter. There is no way to avoid it and automatically starts to use the slots 400 and 500 ?
    Another very useful thing would be to store the image file reference, so when they leave applications can work for, otherwise you will need to start insert the sample piece to do it “photograph”. I look forward to and thank you for any help you give me but especially for inventing and shared all of this. You are great…

    • Fabrizio says:

      Thank you 1000 for answers and for the help. If it can help you to know that I also tried to recreate the folders under documents in another pc, but nothing changes. Both the former pc that this same thing happens, first slot values are stored into their applications, a with 300 and the other with 400, but both go then to write on slot 1 in slot viewer.
      I'll wait for the outcome of your checks, Thanks again and good night…

    • Livio says:

      It took a while’ to identify problems, but we got there.

      For tonight you should find the new version with:
      – The slots that are initialized correctly each time.
      – The reference image stored in a file and loaded automatically when the ignition.

      We will write here when the new version will be ready.
      Thanks for letting us suggested these improvements.

    • Livio says:

      The Theremino_VideoInspector – Version 2.1 is ready to download:

      Just above the download link, We have noted the changes made in this version.

    • Fabrizio says:

      Perfect, now the application writes in the correct slot. Thank you 1000 also for adding the memory function of the reference image to file. Now I can continue with my project, Thanks again and best regards.

  11. Maurizio says:

    Hello Livio.

    Long ago a user had investigated the possibility of using Theremino with Windows phone applications.
    In those days, with versions 7 and 8, It was not possible to use the USB to host.
    Now I read that the version 10 You can do it, so the problem firmware/hardware is solved.
    From the software point of view, You should recompile all windows based 10, the development system (Visual studio community 2015) is only for pc, tablets and phones.
    This could open up new possibilities to the system theremino.
    What do you think?

    As always lately, my contribution is limited to the idea, why because of work unfortunately my time is really cheap.
    Maybe someone else, reading this post, might do something.


    • Livio says:

      On tablets and mobile phones with Windows 10 you do not have to recompile, our applications already work as they are now. If instead you mean to do interfaces groping, easy to press on small screens, then the problem is not recompile with VisualStudio 2015, but completely change the interface towards the user and use the controls feel for. This is a job that would require a long exaggerated and not justified by the results.

      Theremino the system requires control impossible with an LCD display from phone, It takes a minimum of a Tablet with 8 or 10 inch.

  12. Maurizio says:

    Hello Livio.
    As always, you had already addressed the topic :)
    In fact, I hadn't thought about the size of controls.
    Not having to recompile with another IDE, however, is a big plus.
    Some programs Theremino on cell phone would be really comfortable: I am reminded of the geiger and the SDR receiver.


    • Livio says:

      If your phone has Windows such as tablets, then our applications work. Maybe too small to be able to use them, but they must work.

      If someone wants to translate our applications groping, knock yourself out. But I predict a long job. A long struggle with little space, and at the end a miserable and difficult-to-use application.

  13. Maurizio says:

    I did a little’ by searching the internet to understand how to use Theremino on windows phone 10.
    There are several sites that explain how great it is to enable the use of external applications to the store (the option is called side-loading). Few say how to load them.
    From what I read, Unlike the PC version, Windows phone 10 cannot run exe files..
    You can only use the xap files or. appx.
    So it seems that it is necessary to recompile…
    You have more detailed information?

    • Livio says:

      As already written, who wants to try please. For me the poor results that you may obtain are not worth the time it takes to transform any groping.

    • Livio says:

      There has already been one who tried, the alien who wanted to transfer all about Linux, Android, mobile phones, etc.. But of course it was not as easy as he wanted to make believe, in fact, after a few months, without producing anything usable, disappeared.

  14. Roberto says:

    Hello Livio ,
    Sorry to bother you but I would like your advice before starting in order not to lose unnecessary time , Since theremino's hardware and software are your creatures and know some basic problems that there may be .
    Master and HAL are the core system hardware and software ,and communicate via Usb port , I wanted to try replacing communication system with WiFi and then change the Pic program is that source of HAL . I think benefits excluding the connection cable, and then distance between Pc and Master there aren't in fact you have to feed the Master aside and put WiFi module in addition to Master ( cost increases ) but , for some tests with multiple masters that perform different functions would not hurt .
    Now the final jeopardy answer , should I try to mend the two sources to change them or is it better to let it go ? And’ just an idea that came to me not to continue to move with the PC but that if complicated and too elaborate, it makes no sense to be put into practice.
    Thanks for any feedback considering pros and cons and congratulations for the continuous news . As mentioned previously available for any help can give you .


    • Livio says:

      All you can do but probably it would take months of work. And it is said that the PIC can do everything you need to communicate in WiFi. Almost certainly not enough memory because the PIC is already full, then you should use a more capable, that does not exist with the same pin, then you should redo the firmware of In-Out.

      I advise you to connect a PenPC (Maybe a Meegopad) and control it from Afar in WiFi with TeamViewer. And’ exactly like being on site with a keyboard and monitor, but you can feel comfortable to your main computer. Or you could also be at sea and control your system which is home.

      TeamViewer also works on local WiFi network (without internet) and on simple point-to-point connections between two computers. Finally, to transfer files and data on the net you can use the same Windows folders.

      Or you could use a tablet with 8 inch Windows10. Amazon costing 49 Euro. A Tablet would save you even do a power supply circuit, with all the difficulties related to having to recharge lithium-ion batteries without damaging them.

      Attention but to buy only Tablet with separate power connector, otherwise the USB connector or feeds or communicates with the Master. And you can't make them go together even using a HUB. Some hubs say they can do the two together (by installing a special driver) but we never could get them going.

      • Roberto says:

        Thank you very much , always quick and precise and priceless advice (I would lose time in vain since as is theremino with its hardware is perfect for a myriad of things ) .
        Thanks again

  15. Fabio says:

    Good morning, recently I became aware of your. hardware, and it seems brilliant and inspiring. I would like to, through Vs.. Theremino Voice control all electrical devices at home, (rolling shutters, lights, tv, etc), just that my knowledge is limited to VB. What I need in terms of hardware to do what I described? And’ possible to obtain some additional information on the operation of Theremino Voice?

    Thank you in advance.

    • Livio says:

      Theremino voice makes an easy job, writes into the slots. How it works is explained on the page from which you download:

      Download it and start using it without linking it to anything, Maybe use the SlotViewer to see his commands that go on the slots.

      By using it to turn on the lights there are months if not years of theory and practice. What do you want to do involves all knowledge related to most of the system Theremino and knowledge which you can put together just fiddling around long, Unable to explain in a few words.

      Also check “all” the House is highly inadvisable, the first lightning or fault of the PC would you stay without light, heating, etc… Read here:

      Our advice is to start to become comfortable with the system Theremino. Start with the simple things, turn on an led, Learn how to use the “Slot”, who are the heart of the system. Maybe buy a Master on and do some test. Or not to spend anything and try the Sun software applications and the SlotViewer.

      All applications in the system Theremino work without hardware, download them and experiment.

      Then, When you have done many tests, and only then, You may want to turn on some light housework instead of LEDs. When the time comes we will help you for the details but, now, I'm sorry, There is not a “shortcut” We can point you in with four words. On the site Theremino there are one hundred thousand, maybe even too many, just add more confusion.

      • Fabio says:

        Thank you, Livio.
        I'll do what you said. Only one thing, the input from the microphone works?
        Have a nice day.

        • Livio says:

          Input from microphone works if you set the microphone as “Default input device”.

          If you press the button “Microphone” at the bottom left of the application “Theremino Voice” you have to open the “Audio/Recording” where you can set the “Default input device” and adjust the properties of the microphone.

          The instructions for “Theremino Voice” I'm here:

          In the folder “Recog_Files” There are already two examples of file recognition “Colors” and “Numbers”, both in Italian and English. From these examples it is possible to construct other custom files with your own words to be recognized. And you can also make sure that the files are changed automatically when you pronounce certain words.

          When words are recognized the specified number is written in the specified slot.

          Impossible to explain all the possibilities, you have to try the application and fiddling yourself until you understand the mechanism.

  16. leo says:

    Salve, I wanted to make a geiger counter using a master v 5 and a geiger adapter but I don't know where to find the card that appears nowhere to be found, could someone help me to buy it online?
    (of course I mean the geiger adapter)
    Thank you very much in advance :)

  17. Joseph Pally says:

    Hello Livio, Maybe not the right page but I wanted to express a few words of highest esteem for the Yuntab 12″ by thereminoshop.
    I cannot deny that I had my doubts when buying….but all uncertainties have evaporated during these weeks. And’ velocissimo….. load movies streaming, AutoCAD and libreoffice… without difficulty. The ignition is the thing that is most surprising…the price also….but, If you can, tell your kids not to increase thereminoshop….should I buy another.
    All kidding aside, really well done to everyone and good job….I hope to meet you in person once.

    • Livio says:

      If you have to buy another one I suggest you do it soon. Unfortunately Yuntab does not cooperate as we hoped, are changing models and the 10 inches is not already available. We're not sure but it is possible that soon we can not longer get even 12 inch.

      We are looking for an alternative in case that Yuntab delays too the production of new model.

      If you don't find them more you can buy the Mediacom at Amazon, they are virtually identical and are just fine too. Please read this post:

  18. Livio says:

    Raffaele wrote:
    I'm taking a few days ago the information on the web regarding theremino. I have both the raspberry that arduino and I delight to do some’ Home Automation with various sensors. I would try theremino and I was wondering if with the following kit for sale on ebay 38 Euro I can begin to fiddle around a bit: “Theremino Super Pack Master V5 (1PCs)+ Shield(1PCs)+ DVR 8825 (4PCs)+ 4(heat sinks)”

    I still have many doubts, for example I’ unclear if I ever need a PC as support and if I can use the raspberry and if there is a tutorial that explain step by step wiring and software part. Can you give me some advice?

    It might be enough to even Master. The shield and the DRV take it only if you want to move the stepper motors.

    Unlike the Arduino and Raspberry with Theremino you still need a PC, or a stick or tablet PC, and must be with Windows and not with Android or MacOSX and even with various mobile operating systems.

    No, You can't use a Raspberry with Linux, It always takes Windows and it is better if there is Windows10. You could use the Raspberry just provided you become a true expert in Linux and penalizing performance of our applications, that instead on Windows running smoothly and accurately.

    You can find instructions on how to buy PCs and tablets at reasonable prices in this chapter:

    There are tutorials on the links. There are connections to make. Our applications are all separate and communicate with each other only through the slots.

    The only important concept to understand is what are slots and how to use them and the best way to understand them is to use them.

    To start “hack” with the slots download SlotViewer, get two and make them talk to each other, are simple and you don't need any hardware or other applications. Don't spend anything and after trying all combinations of four commands of the two SlotViewer you learn everything on the slots.

    And once you understand the slots in the system Theremino you can do each mixture can, for example playing the Theremin ordering it from any of the other applications, for example by moving your hand in front of a WebCam.

    And all this without hardware then spending zero Euro.

  19. GRAZIANO says:

    I work with the Apuan Seismological Observatory, I have the room I can see live on ion PC all data while if I link with a website the part LEFT of the screen no longer see but it remains only the chart.
    Where is the problem?
    Thank you

    • Livio says:

      It's probably just click on label “Logs” and then disable the button “Only the chart area” (disabled buttons are grey or pale color, While those enabled orangish).

  20. Giacomo says:

    Salve, I ask for a little help. I'm learning programming with VB2008 but I don't understand output. Basically I create a software ascii csv file with. (to read it then with KST, Calc, Excel, etc.) using the writeline (etc.). The program does everything well except that the lines from the csv file are all in quotes (“date;value” to be clear). Going to see how it creates the log file in your “Theremino Logger”, I understand a little’ complex to decipher (According to a beginner). Where I'm wrong? Thanks for availability (I hope this is the right place where to ask this question in the blog)

    • Livio says:

      You should copy here the lines of code they write the file so I can tell you how to change them.

      • Giacomo says:

        Thanks Livio, Here are the most salient lines:
        txtTimeNow. Text = My. Computer. Clock. GmtTime ToLongTimeString.

        dblx = (ReadSlot Slots.(srtSlot))
        dblParameter = (dblGradient * dblx) + dblIntercept
        dblParameter = Math. Round(dblParameter, intVariableFormat)
        FileOpen(1, strFileLog, Openmode. Append)
        WriteLine(1, txtTimeNow. Text & “;” & dblParameter)

        If it is worthwhile, I can send you the whole project by email as it is only 3.86 MB

        • Livio says:

          Seems fair, I don't understand why they should come the quotes.
          Send me the whole project in engineering at sign theremino dot com

          • Giacomo says:

            Hello Livio, I just sent the project. I call it Theremino_SiSeM. Why one understands from the Form “About”.
            In the Debug folder there are csv log files with the hateful quotes.
            Hello and thank you

  21. BSJaun says:

    Hola, I've seen his fantastic cosmic ray detector, and come me to a series of questions about the design:
    1- It's a directional detector, and I understand that it would not be capable of measuring all of muon received from different directions. Do up to what number of tubes Geiger could be added to the system, to expand the range of addresses?. You could design a Coincidence Detector capable of receiving as many signals as pipes and Geiger Adapters transfer? (For example 6)?, but and the master DIL; you would be limited only to the six connectors located under the PIC (MasterDIL-V5)?
    2- I think that it is not possible to purchase commercially Coincidence Detector used in the detector plate. Do you have any other scheme or even pcb design, more than that contained in the .pdf document?.
    3- Which comes to be the consumption of the tube system geiger and its corresponding Geiger Adapter?.

    • Livio says:

      1) The directionality is very rough. Many bricks of lead would be needed just to get the directionality of some degree. They are pounds of lead because they have to be thick otherwise the cosmic rays through them.

      You could add many geiger tubes and measure them in pairs. But you must study a suitable circuit to move and read them.

      We do not believe that it is worthwhile. Cosmic rays are what they are, you know everything about them. It is well to do a school experiment of two pipes but trying to emulate what they have done in GranSasso is totally useless.

      2) Just explain how. We do not sell anything. Other schemes and tips can be found by writing to Lodovico Physicsopenlab that has made many more experiments in this field.

      3) The tube is powered by the GeigerAdapter, it consumes less than 50 UA (micro-amperios) to 5 Volt.

      1) Direzionalita e molto grossolana. Vorrebbero moltissimi mattoni di piombo disposti in precise mode per Energia a direzionalita di qualche grade. Quintali sono di piombo perché devono essere spessi altrimenti i raggi cosmici li attraversano.

      Yes potrebbero aggiungere molti tubi misurarli a coppie e geiger. But you should study a suitable circuit to switch them and read them.

      We don't think it's worth it. Cosmic rays are what they are, you know everything about them. Alright do an experiment with two pipes but try to emulate what they've already done the GranSasso is totally unnecessary.

      2) We explain just how do you. We do not sell anything. Other schemes and recommendations you may find them by writing to Lodovico di physicsopenlab who has made many more experiments of us in this field.

      3) The pipe is powered by the GeigerAdapter which consumes less than 50 UA (micro-amps) to 5 volts.

  22. Livio says:

    Rudolf asked us:
    Is there any project that achieves a multimeter for PC (voltmeter, ammeter, Oscilloscope etc.) with Theremino?
    Something like this:

    There are many applications in the system theremino you might find useful, If only as a starting point:

    And for the measures through the sound card (with much wider bandwidth)

    And for assorted sizes…

    We however privileged applications that implement well with our system,
    no difficult settings and taking account of the limits inherent in direct communication via USB.

    Before you begin please note that:
    – The passband with the Adc of the Master both with the Adc24 cannot exceed 250 Hz (direct communication, sample by sample, via USB)
    – With the Adc of the master you will have an accuracy of just more than one per thousand.
    – The Adc of the Master refer to 3.3 Volts stabilized on the master by the MCP1700 regulator which is not a standard of accuracy and stability.
    – To obtain accurate voltage measurements will take precise and tedious calibration dividers.

  23. geofaber says:

    Hello everyone.
    Meanwhile, congratulations to the advances that made the system theremino. The evolution of its applications has allowed me to jump into applications unthinkable until recently for me (by theremino logger to balance, by theremino automation in theremino button). Clearly using start questions…from which one understands my ignorance on the subject, but that's a big compliment to you as only thanks to your system I was able to land in a complex world …
    The question is simple. For now I used as relays to activate a fan a relay of grove Relay v 1.2 . I am trying these but I can't fly. In practice the two lights remain lit appears as if it is always enabled. Do you have any idea if these relays are compatible with theremino ?

    • Livio says:

      The Master output signals range from zero to 3.3 volts and the maximum current controllable from each output is just over 10 mA.
      Both relays that you indicated should work but since there are no diagrams of their circuit you can't be sure of anything.

      You should link them so:

      Master Relay
      GND —- GND
      5volts —- VCC
      Signal —- In

      If you right it is very strange that colleagues do not spring free.

      Learn more about how to connect the relay on this page:
      (here though we speak of relay without electronics, or rather with the DIY electronics)

      • geofaber says:

        The links are OK, the strange thing is that as soon as I plug my signal taking, Although the pin slot is set to 0 and always remains attached even put the slot to 1000. The grove still works perfectly

        • Livio says:

          If you find the wiring diagram of what does not work then we can tell you why is wrong and how to correct it.

          • geofaber says:

            the wiring diagram I wouldn't know where to retrieve it, the relay is a jqc-3ff-s-z but added electronics wiring diagram, I didn't find her. I tried to make them go with arduino to see if simply were broken and instead go. In any case pointless waste of time, rather than those of grove do you know of other relay fitted electronics already tested with theremino low cost ?

            • Livio says:

              Probably your Arduino outputs from 0 to 5 Volt and il piastrino wrong works only with signals from 5 volts and possibly reversed (that is, zero voltage relay on).

              You may add two 1N4148 diodes in series with the signal with the clamp toward the Master. Would probably work but the relay switch on when the output Pin is at zero (turned off).

              To adapt the signal correctly (always worth it) You should add a small NPN transistor with the emitter and collector IN mass. And the base of the transistor should be connected with a 1 k resistor to the SIGNAL of the Master.

              • geofaber says:

                Interesting. Though actually I think isn't worth it, I take another grove I do first ….
                Thanks and see you soon

  24. Maximum says:

    with ADC 24 would it be possible to measure the power developed by the barrier depending on bike and the road travelled ?

    • Livio says:

      to measure the power you need to measure energy and time. By the time no problem, If they could occupy the software (that someone should write) as for the energy it would take an appropriate sensor. I don't know if there is a sensor like this and where to look. Probably should be applied by changing the mechanisms between the pedals and wheel.

      The bike and the road don't matter, doesn't seem to provide useful data to calculate the power. It would be impossible to account for all, weights, friction of the wheels, types of asphalt of various sections, power lost in the mechanisms, power lost during braking, slope of each road segment…

      To get the power with a minimum of precision you would measure the power applied to the pedals. A sensor like this (If there is) would an accuracy no better than one percent, but probably much less. Why the Adc24 (It has a precision of one part in 16 millions) It would be completely wasted. The Adc of the Master module would suffice to large, since they have a higher accuracy than one per thousand.

      However first of all you should find a power sensor (strength for speed at the point of application of force), If you find that fact and we will study whether it can be connected to our Adc.

      • Maximum says:

        NET some project uses strain gauges mounted on the crank with a wireless link to the ECU, also used in weighs luggage up to 50 kg.
        My group consists of bottom bracket 3 pieces screwed, I imagine there are twists, Maybe you can put a estensimetroa between the two, the piece with 5 races is screwed to a ring and the outer face total of the two pieces is mm. 25 of which 9 what breeds.

        • Livio says:

          A strain gauge would only half the job.

          Anyway the whole should be very precise and mechanically designed especially for this use. Otherwise the accuracy would be so low that you'd be safer going to estimate or pesandoti before to after.

          In my opinion it is not feasible by craft. Or is a complete group specially built to measure power in a bicycle or just messes.

  25. Maurizio says:

    Interesting topic, I try to speak my mind.

    In theory the right sensor is the torque meter, also called torque meter, measuring the torque applied between an incoming and an outgoing axis.
    In theory, do we need a coax to insert between the pedal axle and sprockets front gear.
    I think that the installation would require changing the bike frame, and certainly you have to spend a lot to buy it. It also increases the weight of the bike a lot.

    A simpler option mechanically, but more complicated as the data connection, as it requires two contemporary wireless, you use two load cells, between each shoe and pedal, I think the system cited by Massimo.

    An alternative, not very precise but certainly cheaper and simpler implementation, would be to pull the upper part of the drive chain (the part that is in tension during cycling) on a machine connected to a lever, held in tension by a spring so that the chain is thrust out from its natural path and straight. Something similar to the chain tensioner that's usually in the lower part, but suitable for much greater forces.
    Reading the position of the lever with a sensor, would it be possible to have an idea of the applied force on the chain, and then the couple.
    Although more traditional and less compact, Conceptually, it is the system used by torque.
    To get a reading of the effective force on the pedals, It is necessary to consider the ratio actually used, which is the location of the Exchange, so you should put some position sensors for the front derailleur shifter side pedals.
    In addition, You must make an adjustment of the behavior of the whole spring-handle-chain, because probably the slope of the lever is not linear with respect to the couple.

    In all three cases cited, You must bring all this data to a microprocessor, analysing the readings very frequently, say at least a hundred times per second, and integrate them, because the force applied to the pedals changes continuously during rotation.
    Doing the debt calculations, It may be possible to get an idea of the power output.
    But at this point, I think the problem is not the accuracy of the ADC, but the capture rate of the ADC, to calculate the processor, and the memory required to hold all of the data if you want to get a chart to read later.

    Ultimately, whichever method you use agree with Livio that get good accuracy is not easy.
    Even with a good mechanical, There would always be work a lot on software, that should offset the inevitable non-linearities and behavioral differences on different routes. For example,, When you take a force on the transmission varies dramatically for a moment, creating instant readings that at a time tend to zero, and in the other they send the sensor out of range, and these readings can impact heavily on calculating the average, that has to be done properly.
    Might be okay for comparative measurements between individual outputs (and even here the repeatability of the measurement would in my opinion be verified) but certainly not for absolute measurements.
    However, I think Most don't want to get the data to be presented at a Research Institute, but just get an idea of the energy expended in its outputs, and maybe one of these methods to him would suffice.


    • Livio says:

      In my opinion all the proposed methods are too complex to put into practice, both mechanically and in the firmware and software. We handle only simple projects that give good results, We do not have time to follow complicated and difficult projects.

      However there are companies that produce such gauges:

      I don't think they are very precise. But if we did we would be even worse. So let them do them, precision mechanics is not our field.

  26. Anonymous says:

    Are Up I forgot to add it before.
    Maurizio you nailed perfectly the purpose, but Livio about the accuracy of power meters on the market.
    I have two bikes, one with some changes made, the other standard, I'd love a comparative measurement to see mechanical yield.
    Then we talk about comparing two measurements made with the same instrument, then if conditions change on identical road route, doing a few hundred km quit anyway if with a bike make less effort than the other comparison is not an absolute measurement.
    I read that, the most important facts to consider generally relate to: Cadence ( number of revolutions of the crank arm per minute ) bike speed, leg pedal pressure, heartbeat.
    Would a thousand other environmental variables like wind, road conditions, physical state of the moment, temperature
    environment, etc.etc. but that would be too much for my personal interest and I read that are not considered in these appliances, Moreover what if not compare performance between a limit and the other, in my case I'd like to see which of the two bikes is more efficient.
    The networking projects consider a signal amplifier strain gauge cranks a Sonde and data collector, but I also found a bottom bracket with built-in torque sensor, depends on the yield compared to spending.
    In the case of installation of strain gauge + Hardwares, I would ask just what card to use I have a master DIL – V3 purchased in its time and some opinion for the rest I would try to provide me. I have seen some patterns of head position gauges, for mechanics I personally, I'm considering the choice to make.

    • Livio says:

      To compare the mechanical rendering of two bicycles can't overlook the wind, the pavement condition, the climbs, the roughness of the ground, etc… The influence of these elements is probably greater than the differences between the two bikes.

      To measure the strain gauges it takes:
      – A Master (a fine V3 but updated with firmware V5)
      – Adc24 card

      But then it will take even a rock software and clear them.
      And it will take a more complex software to do the integral of various sensors.
      And the sensors will not only strain gauges but need (at a minimum) even an instant speed sensor otherwise you just a force that does not want to say anything.

      Before you waste time and money with the Adc24 remember that then will write an application to read the sensors and merge data in a formula to calculate the instantaneous power and finally the integral of power, taking into account of correction factors, data linearization, instant noise elimination due to holes, etc… Do you know some programming language on which you intend to write this application?

  27. MasterDIL-V5 says:

    Hello. I have assembled MasterDIL-V5.And with V5.0 firmware. I have the following problem. After disconnecting to the computer, the green LED blinks all the time and the device is not detected. The message “device unrecognized” is displayed. What could be the cause /. What I have done error

    • Livio says:

      It appears to be an error in the USB connection.
      Maybe the pcb traces going to the USB connector.
      Sometimes happens that the USB connector soldering is defective and creates shorts between the little USB connector pins
      Or maybe the USB cable that is a “charger cable” and not a true USB cable?
      Or the two 15 ohm resistors (R12 and R13) that are not present or very high resistance value?

      The PIC is a 24FJ64GB002 ?
      …GB… is important!

      Your operating system is Windows?
      Maybe on MAC or Linux or Android you could get some strange error.

      The chrystal is 8 MHz?

      If you can not correct the error I could repare it without any charge.
      Eventually send it to thereminoshop, they are friend and near to my town.

      • MasterDIL-V5 says:

        PIC is 24FJ64GB002, quartz 8Mhz, 15 ohm resistors. I suspect that I am doing something wrong while programming. I am using PICKIT2. I do not need any special settings in it? I only download the hex file to the processor.

        • Livio says:

          If the led blinks then the processor is correctly programmed and running. So it is not a PICKIT or firmware problem.

          It is an electrical problem.

          Please try to test on all the other USB ports, and other PCs.

          If you could make good images, maybe with a scanner, send them to us to “engineering at theremino dot com”.

          Try also to change the quartz and/or its capacitors (maybe it oscillates to a slighty different frequency)

          Good luck.

  28. IW5CYY says:

    Occasionally the ion Chamber sends this message highlighted in yellow:

    WARNING CPS period near to sensor DeadTime

    The track jumps upwards or downwards
    I wanted to attach the screenshot but I couldn't.

    Misapreste say, per favore, What could be the problem?

    • Livio says:

      The track jumps upwards, stays on for a time and then return to normal level. This “some time” is the integration time of the FIR filter. Try checking and you'll see that if you set 3600 seconds the track stays on for an hour.

      Because the trace Swish?
      Because there's been a flurry of abnormal impulses, not caused by the disintegrations of Radon, but on the other. The impulses remain in the filter exactly to the second set then leave the filter and do not affect more.

      What can be caused by abnormal impulses?
      – A particle of dust that comes off the inside wall and begins to bounce between two electric poles. After some time the particle stick somewhere and stop causing disturbances.
      – Someone or something that shakes the room, for example a cat.
      – A bug that managed to enter.
      – A very strong electrical impulses caused by large motors or other apparatus of the same kind (try to turn on and off repeatedly every appliance suspicion and equip them with suppression filters).
      – The moisture that exceeds the 70..80% and that thickens the air agglomerando the microscopic particles, always present, and creating “micro pellets” bouncing between the two poles.

      what to do?
      The humidity is the most likely explanation. And’ already happened to many and you can fix with a dehumidifier or just with a hot air heater.

  29. Joseph says:

    Well in short…Maybe you expect some technical request…and instead ... I wanted to wish you a happy new year to all the team of theremino….Thank you for what you do…and thanks that you share with us and with the world…It's a good year…See you soon …Joseph

  30. USB Sound Card says:

    Hello. Can someone give me a hint where to connect capacitor 33nF to the USB sound card modification scheme?

    • Livio says:

      It must be connected in series to the input signal. Very near to the card chip and with short wires.

      In the folder “Docs”, of the Theremino_MCA application, you will find the file PmtAdapters, with images and examples.

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